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Episode 6 - Sundown

6 March 2010

Review

Present: Sayid demands answers from Dogen and they fight. MIB sends Claire into the Temple to deliver a message. Dogen sends Sayid out to meet MIB with instructions on how to kill him. Sayid fails to do so and MIB offers him the chance to get Nadia back. Sayid returns and tells the Others that MIB wants to leave the island and will take them all with him. Those who remain behind will be killed. Kate returns and talks to Claire. Sayid kills Dogen and Lennon and the Smoke Monster storms through the Temple killing those in his path. Ilana and company return to rescue Miles and escape.

Flashback: Sayid arrives at Nadia’s house where we discover she married his brother Omar and has two children by him. Omar is being threatened by a loan shark and asks for Sayid’s help. When Omar is taken to hospital, Sayid is picked up by some men. They take him to meet the loan shark, Martin Keamy. Sayid kills Keamy and his men and finds Jin tied up in his kitchen.

The Good: Sayid has always been one of the easiest to love characters on the show. If you can look past the relentless murder and torture that is. He is logical, he is reasonable and he always wanted to escape the island. He felt great guilt for what he had done wrong and yearned for a long lost love. He was also good at most things he put his hand to and kicked plenty of ass. What’s not to like?

On the island we see Sayid descend from his logic and morality into a kind of madness and selfishness. He kills Dogen and Lennon in order to gain for himself a return to Nadia’s side. His chilling “Not for me” comment to Ben was well acted and made it clear that like Claire, the “darkness” has taken control of him and he is no longer “our” Sayid anymore.

Off the island we see Sayid refusing to kill. His conscience seems firmly in control as he refuses to be with Nadia because he feels he doesn’t deserve her. His international travel may actually not be for oil companies because he claims he is trying to wash his hands of what he did in Iraq. He refuses to help his brother with violence and when he is angered to do so he doesn’t because of Nadia. It seems that she is the missing piece in his life. With her to protect and ask him not to kill he doesn’t give in to his darker nature.

The end of the story could well determine what these flash sideways really are. Sayid decides that he needs to kill Keamy and his men in order to free his brother from their extortion and then he finds Jin tied up in their kitchen. The hook of seeing Sayid now intimately connected to Jin’s story is a good hook. It’s the first proof that our characters will interact with each other in a meaningful way in the flashsideways. It also makes you wonder whether what Sayid did was justified. He killed three men in order to prevent a greater injustice. Does that justify what he did? Sayid’s story has always been about his search for redemption and whether or not he gets it in the flashsideways is key to understanding what it is that we are seeing unfold.

On the surface then Sayid’s story was satisfying. It had real intrigue as he essentially dies on the island while facing a familiar scenario off it. And add to that some terrific scenes. He and Dogen have a wonderfully choreographed fight. Then Sayid had another well acted and written scene with MIB (see The Unknown) where MIB converted him to his side. We also got Dogen’s backstory which explained the baseball, the torturous test he gave Sayid and information on the way Jacob recruited him. Nadia and Sayid’s chemistry was good as usual and painted a plausible picture of what their lives were like in the new universe.

Martin Keamy was excellent as he always was, though this time he played grinning mobster rather than straight shooting mercenary. His death was very interesting though, again implying that in this universe everyone gets their just desserts. Keamy was a thug who used his gifts to exploit and spread sorrow. In both worlds he ended up dying by the sword he lived by, so to speak. Again it seemed to reinforce the sense that justice was being done, sideways style.

The Bad: The problems with this story come from old fashioned Lost writer vagueness.

Remember that when the survivors arrived at the Temple (602) Dogen ordered them to be killed. They had done nothing wrong, they simply weren’t supposed to be there and so these Others were happy to gun them down. Now we have a situation where no one will kill Sayid. Dogen implied that Sayid had to take the poison willingly (603) in order to die. But that doesn’t seem to be the case here where Dogen has to stop himself from slitting Sayid’s throat. Sayid then walks outside where men with guns are and no one does anything.

Those are the facts and they leave uncomfortable questions. If Sayid could be killed anytime, then why didn’t Dogen have him shot? The only answer which makes sense is Dogen’s conscience troubling him, what with the baseball falling off the table etc. But if his conscience is so easily bothered then why did he order the survivors to be murdered?

The real answer is obvious. He ordered them to be killed in order to make the Others seem threatening and show how important these candidates were. In this episode Dogen’s conscience is playing up because it would be inconvenient if he had just killed Sayid when he had the chance. It’s lazy writing because a more plausible set of excuses could easily have been created.

Things get worse though for the way the Others are written as we go on. Sayid announces that Jacob is dead, that MIB is leaving the island and will take anyone with him and that those remaining in the Temple at Sundown will be killed. What happens next is that a bunch of Others including Cindy conclude that they are no longer safe and they leave and end up following MIB toward his next destination.

Again, those are the facts. However they raise another heap of questions for which there are no good answers. I have long complained that there is no explanation given for the Others’ behaviour. By that I mean, we don’t know what their religious belief is, we don’t know what they do everyday on the island, we don’t know how much each Other is told or believes.

So Cindy tells Lennon that Jacob being dead is her reason for no longer feeling safe in the Temple. Who does she think Jacob is? Does she think he is an immortal being? If so how did he die? How can he die? Shouldn’t his death be the most shocking and horrifying thing she has ever heard? Clearly she had to be converted to become an Other and leave behind her life back in the real world. So for her to state this reason for leaving seems pretty unconvincing. 

More than that though, does she not know who MIB is? Dogen says he is evil incarnate. Does she not know that? Does she not know what the smoke monster is? To actually end up following him seems crazy. She seems like the most gullible person in world’s history to have gone from following one immortal being who has just died to following a dead passenger from Flight 815 who also happens to be a smoke monster. If she had shown absolute terror and fear of him at the episodes end that might have sold her thinking a little.

Then there is the question of what is protecting the Temple from MIB. It would seem Jacob was protecting them because news of his death sent everyone into an ash dropping panic (602). But then why didn’t the ash work when smokey arrived? Then Lennon claimed that Dogen was the one keeping MIB out. If that was true then why wasn’t he better protected? Indeed why wasn’t that explained to everyone to prevent them from panicking.

Sadly there doesn’t seem to be a good answer to all these questions. Remember that Juliet lived with our survivors for years and yet we know nothing about the Others from her. You would have thought Sawyer might have asked her a few questions during those long nights in the Barracks. But when he was at the Temple he showed no signs of knowledge. It seems like the writers never bothered to give the Others a cohesive ideology or belief system which if true is a deep shame. The result is that the Others look like props rather than real people and that undermines what was otherwise a dramatic and action packed story.

It would have been nice if Sayid had snorted at the idea of a scale which can judge the goodness or badness of a person’s soul. But I suppose that qualifies as nitpicking after time travel and resurrection.

The Unknown: I almost put this in “The Good” but once more felt like I couldn’t. But it seemed like Sayid’s inability to kill the MIB was a crucial part of the story. I still believe that the MIB is a bad guy. In this episode he helps turn Sayid back into a killer and then kills a bunch of people himself for example. If that is correct then Dogen’s attempt to kill him was an important plot point.

Twice Dogen made a big deal out of Sayid not letting MIB speak to him. I thought what followed was superbly written, again if that is true. Sayid heard that familiar smokey sound and prepares for the worst. He is of course shocked to see the dead John Locke standing in front of him and pauses for too long. He allows MIB to say “Hello Sayid” before plunging Dogen’s dagger into his chest. MIB of course turned the situation around on Sayid persuasively arguing that Dogen simply wanted MIB to kill Sayid for him. MIB played the devil in the desert (where he tempted Jesus) asking for Sayid’s obedience in exchange for anything he wanted. He managed to persuade Sayid not just to deliver a message but to murder Dogen himself. Perhaps someone else, like Jack, might get to MIB before he speaks and kill him once and for all. If so then that detail was very nicely placed here because MIB’s words were persuasive in sowing doubt about whether MIB really is “evil incarnate.”

Dogen’s backstory raised a particularly interesting question about Jacob and MIB too. He claims that Jacob asked him to come work at the Temple in exchange for saving his son’s life. We haven’t heard of Jacob making such explicit deals before. We have only seen him ask for help from Hurley (517) and Ilana (516) and nudge other people. This deal of course sounds exactly like the deal MIB offers Sayid. Were the writers just drawing a direct comparison for effect? Or were they further sowing seeds of doubt about whether Jacob really is a good guy?

Dogen also claims that MIB wants to destroy every living thing on the island. That sounds exactly like what Keamy was on the island to do under instruction from Charles Widmore. Another important plot point that seems to have been forgotten.

Best Moment: I thought Sayid seeing Locke and stabbing him just too late was a great moment. Especially as Sayid was soon persuaded to ignore the significance of it. If that is how MIB died then this moment was even better written than it appears now.

The Bottom Line: Despite the weight of my criticism about the presentation of the Others, this was a very enjoyable episode. All action, good developments in the flash sideways and big ones on the island. The plot moved forward a long way and Sayid essentially died here.

The question is whether the writers are going to disappoint fans too much with what they are presenting. This episode implies strongly that huge questions about the Others will be ignored in favour of telling more simple stories about each character’s redemption or fulfilment. If true then those stories will need to be extremely satisfying in order to make up for the disappointments.

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  • I only have a short time to get this in before the next episode, but I just listened to your podcast, having found them very helpful last season in articulating what I like and dislike about Lost. I was really surprised you liked it so well! I just thought Sayid's characterization was all over the place on the island, similar to the way you described Claire's characterization in last week's episode. I was very confused that he would go and try to kill the smoke monster after saying "Why should I when all you do is [beat me up]?" and then why he would so suddenly turn and confide in the smoke monster about his needs and then follow him. He made such a quick turn from being "rational Sayid" who as you put it so well, is easy to love (in part because of the actor's performance, I suspect, because in some ways he could be a very 2D character) to possessed and evil. Maybe I expected a more gradual corruption, I don't know. Maybe the explanation is just that he has become so corrupted so quickly, so I will hold out hope that there is a logical explanation. It just really irked me in the way Lost can be irksome about withholding small details that may or may not need to remain mysterious but could provide clarity in the moment. His characterization off the island was better, but I was still a little confused that he decided to kill Keamy anyway. Perhaps my reaction there was colored by my sadness that Sayid may not get a happy ending, however.

    I can see your point about the Others. It didn't bother me as much perhaps because I have more hope that this is one mystery they will answer, simply because they have been so deliberate about drawing it out for so long. I figured that some Others (like Cindy and the kids) would just head for the woods and not necessarily join the smoke monster, but just decide not to remain in the temple so as to avoid probable death. If I see this week that they are all joining up with "incarnate evil" I may change my mind. For me, I operate under the assumption that the Others are like religion gone bad. They seem to have high moral principles, yet do many ruthless things in the name of them. Their leaders deliberately manipulate and keep their followers and the survivors in the dark. This seems a little different from Jacob, who I see as a divine, "good" figure; although that could change once we know more about him. I do not know how much of this is my theory and how much I have been shown this in the show itself, but that gives me some sort of framework so I don't get too frustrated! I loved certain aspects of this episode, particularly the interaction between Sayid and Nadia and Kate and Claire.

    Posted by KC, 10/03/2010 1:53am (6 months ago)

  • Sorry if I missed the podcast. I didn't have a great deal of reaction to this episode. I thought it effectively moved the plot forward -- in that sense it wasn't filler. Nevertheless, I wasn't really strongly engaged, even though I always root strongly for Sayid for the reasons you give, Robin, and because Naveen Andrews realizes the character with great sympathy.

    Initially I thought the flash-sideways story tended toward my thesis that these stories aren't the final resolutions (how could we accept Nadia ends up with Sayid's <i>brother</i>?) But then we find out that it was his own choice, and it makes a great deal of sense.

    In terms of the on-island action, I read someone somewhere say this was a clear "End Act I" type episode, and I think that sums it up well. The sides are pretty well chosen, let the battle commence.

    Posted by Mike Drew, 06/03/2010 7:14pm (6 months ago)

  • I have read that one of the season 6 objectives for the writers/produces was to give it a season 1 feel. In that respect I think Sundown was very successful.
    The off island story reminded me of the flash backs from season 1 where we are introduced to a character, we see seemingly coincidental appearances from other characters, and most importantly off island Sayid and on island Sayid seem connected by the situation they are in and the choices they have to make.
    The on island story reminded me of the season 1 island. After 6 season I am still not sure what this island is. I was left very confused and entertained at the same time.
    The noise, trees shaking, wind blowing, and then Locke walking out of the jungle to meet with Sayid was brilliant. And then followed by the shock Sayid had after stabbing him, as well as the great dialogue afterward, wow. This scene from beginning to end was nothing short of perfect for me.
    But with good there is bad, and I agree with your thoughts on the others. The majority of the others seem to be nothing more than sheep, willing to follow whoever is there to lead them. I thought one of the driving forces behind their ideology was that each one of them felt they were there for a reason and that reason was important. To see them just abandon everything for self preservation makes me seriously doubt their convictions, and at the same time I am not sure I can really fault someone for just wanting to stay alive. So I guess Locke did succeed in separating those that were willing to die for their beliefs and those that were not. And maybe a bunch of sheep is exactly what Locke wants.
    One last thing. Ilana. Ben doesn't know her, Richard doesn't know her, but she is very familiar with the island. I wonder if Dogen would have recognized her? They are building up her character, I hope her story is leading to something major. It would be a real shame if she is not as important as her knowledge about the island seems to indicate she is.

    Posted by Jason Slough, 05/03/2010 9:35pm (6 months ago)

  • One thing you didn't mention in your unknown which I'm sure you've put in other unknown sections I'd Ilana. How deep does her knowledge of the island go? She seems to be pretty familiar with the temple. It will be interesting to find out about her provided they tell us.

    Posted by Joe, 05/03/2010 8:09pm (6 months ago)

  • Overall a fairly unbalanced episode with the on island action outshining the off island [alternative timeline] action. I was left with the feeling that this was a eposide that is trying to set the scene for a larger battle with MIB assasing a small army of followers, with Ben, Sun, Lapidus & co rejoining the main action, and with Illana continuing to show us that she knows more they she has revealed to date. So, Sayid didn't overcome his demons and find peace like Jack, John etc in the alternative timeline. It wasn't as revealing an alternative timeline however this is probably a good thing as it will reomove the "and they all lived happly ever after" expectation from future alternative timeline stories. On island, smokey turning up and unleashing his terror is not such a suprise anymore, where previously a mere sighting of him was a eposide highlight. Claire wandering off with the infected Sayiad, Claire and the "evil incarnate" will surely be justification to those many Lost fans who never really warmed to her character. I'm expecting some serious action, twists and deeper understanding in the next 2-3 eposides ....

    Posted by Nodrog, 05/03/2010 10:16am (6 months ago)

  • Hello TV Critic. Love your reviews and podcasts. You actually talk about the episode and what happened instead of endlessly speculating on what MIGHT happen or some theory. I liked it episode it was action-packed Sayid centric episode like we've seen in the past. And it was great to see Kevin Durand again. We're getting to the end of the setup and now moving forward into the action. I only had two complaints: (1) Sayid's brother and his family seemed too "American" and (2) Kate and Sayid run into each other and do nothing more than say Hi!

    Posted by rcocean, 05/03/2010 2:19am (6 months ago)

  • Sundown seemed to fall apart at the end. I am still waiting for an episode as good as LeFleur, but so far this season has been what I'd expect from a good show in its last season. They always disappoint (except for The Wire or Sopranos).
    It's starting to look like we're not going to know what the Alt timeline means until the last 2 or 3 episodes, probably the same for Jacob/MIB as well. These are important plot points and to keep stringing them out is only serving to weaken this season.


    Posted by Kevin j, 05/03/2010 12:45am (6 months ago)

  • I'm going 61. The sideways story was weak at points but not as weak as What Kate Does.

    Posted by the Simpleman, 04/03/2010 5:44pm (6 months ago)

  • In general I really liked this episode, it caused me to question the nature of the alt timeline - previously I had thought it was a vision of another reality where people had overcome their issues and were the 'best' versions of themselves, but that doesn't appear to be true for Sayid. Heartbreaking, because I wanted the better side of his character to win out. Hope this is not the end of the struggle.

    My one pet peave in the episode is that I cannot for the life of me imagine why Dogen would allow Sayid to get close enough to kill him. When he said "I take it the man outside offered you a similar bargain?" he had to know that killing him and removing the protection around the temple would be part of Sayid's plan if he indeed made a bargain with "evil incarnate" - so why did he just sit there with him?

    Posted by LittleImp, 04/03/2010 4:33pm (6 months ago)

  • predicting a 59

    Posted by jeremy, 04/03/2010 7:45am (6 months ago)

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